Talk 264.
D.: Does Bhagavan see the world as part and parcel of Himself? How does He see the world?M.: The Self alone is and nothing else. However, it is differentiated owing to ignorance. Differentiation is threefold: (1) of the same kind: (2) of a different kind, and (3) as parts in itself. The world is not another self similar to the self. It is not different from the self; nor is it part of the self.
D.: Is not the world reflected on the Self?
M.: For reflection there must be an object and an image. But the Self does not admit of these differences.
D.: Does not then Bhagavan see the world?
M.: Whom do you mean by Bhagavan?
D.: A jiva [?] advanced more than I.
M.: If you understand your jiva the other jiva is also understood.
D.: I do not want to discuss. I want to learn. Please instruct me.
M.: Because you desire to learn, discussion is unavoidable. Leave all this aside. Consider your sleep. Are you then aware of bondage or do you seek means for release? Are you then aware of the body itself? The sense of bondage is associated with the body. Otherwise there is no bondage, no material to bind with and no one to be bound. These appear, however, in your wakeful state. Consider to whom they appear.
D.: To the mind.
M.: Watch the mind. You must stand aloof from it. You are not the mind. And the Self will remain ever.
D.: Does Sri Bhagavan believe in evolution?
M.: Evolution must be from one state to another. When no differences are admitted, how can evolution arise?
D.: Why does Sri Krishna say, "After several rebirths the seeker gains knowledge and thus knows Me." There must be evolution from stage to stage.
M.: How does Bhagavad Gita begin?" Neither I was not nor you nor these chiefs, etc." "Neither it is born, nor does it die, etc." So there is no birth, no death, no present as you look at it. Reality was, is, and
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will be. It is changeless. Later Arjuna asked Sri Krishna how he could have lived before Aditya. Then Krishna, seeing Arjuna was confounding Him with the gross body, spoke to him accordingly. The instruction is for the one who sees diversity. In reality there is no bondage nor mukti [?] for himself or for others from the jnani's standpoint.
D.: Are all in liberation?
M.: Where is all? There is no liberation either. It could be only if there was bondage. There was really no bondage and so, it follows, there is no liberation.
D.: But to evolve through births, there must be practice, years of abhyasa [?].
M.: Abhyasa [?] is only to prevent any disturbance to the inherent peace. There is no question of years. Prevent this thought at this moment. You are only in your natural state whether you make abhyasa or not.
Another man asked: Why do not all realise the Self in that case?
M.: It is the same question in another guise. Why do you raise this question? Inasmuch as you raise this question of abhyasa it shows you require abhyasa. Make it. But to remain without questions or doubts is the natural state. God created man; and man created God. They both are the originators of forms and names only. In fact, neither God nor man was created.