6th January, 1937

Talk 317.

Mr. Parkhi: Many visitors here tell me that they get visions or thought-
currents from you. I am here for the last month and a half and still I have not the slightest experience of any kind. Is it because I am unworthy of your grace? If so, I feel it disgraceful that I being Vasishtakulotpanna

(of the lineage of Vasishta) should not have your grace, while far-off foreigners should have it. Will you kindly suggest some prayaschitta ^[?]

(method of expiation) for removing this disgrace?
M.: Visions and thought-currents are had according to the state of mind.

It depends on the individuals and not upon the Universal Presence. Moreover, they are immaterial. What matters is Peace of Mind.

D.: Peace of mind is the result of trance. How is trance got?
M.: Trance is only absence of thoughts. That state prevails in sleep.

Do you have enduring peace of mind on that account?

D.: It is said in the journal maintained in the Asramam that trance is necessary.

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M.: Trance is not something apart to be got anew. Your natural state is that of trance.

D.: But I do not feel it.
M.: The fact of your contrary belief is the obstruction.
D.: Since I have not realised the Self I say that I do not understand my permanent state of trance.

M.: This is only a repetition. That is the obstruction. This arises because you think that the non-self is you. That is the mistake. Do not take the non-self to be the Self. Then the Self will be evident to you.

D.: I understand it theoretically but not practically.
M.: There are no two selves - for the self to speak of the non-realisation of the Self.

D.: It is still theoretical to me. How shall I get the trance?
M.: Trance is only temporary in its effects. There is happiness so long as it lasts. After rising from it the old vasanas return. Unless the vasanas are destroyed in sahaja samadhi ^[?] (effortless samadhi), there is no good of trance.

D.: But trance must precede sahaja samadhi?
M.: Trance is the natural state. Although there are activities and phenomena, yet they do not affect the trance. If they are realised to be not apart from the Self, the Self is realised. Where is the use of trance, unless it brings about enduring peace of mind? Know that even now you are in trance whatever happens. That is all.

D.: But how shall I do it?

A scholar remarked: Yato vacho nivartante aprapya manasa saha (where words fail to reach, along with the mind). The questioner retorted: It is also said manasaiva aptavyam (to be realised with the mind only).

M.: Yes. The Pure Mind, i.e., the mind free from thoughts is the Self.

The pure mind is beyond the impure mind.

D.: Seen with the subtlest of subtle intellect by subtle seers.
M.: What was said of mind applies to this also.
D.: If trance be my natural state, why is it said that trance is necessary to be got before Realisation?

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M.: That means that one should be aware of his eternal state of trance.

Inattentiveness to it is ignorance. Pramado vai mrtyuh (inattention is death itself).

D.: How can I be attentive without getting trance beforehand?
M.: Very well. If you are so anxious for trance any narcotic will bring it about. Drug-habit will be the result and not liberation. There are vasanas

in the latent state even in trance. The vasanas must be destroyed. Another devotee: Can there be Self-Realisation before the vasanas

are entirely destroyed?

M.: There are two kinds of vasanas: (1) bandha hetuh, causing bondage for the ignorant, and (2) bhoga hetuh, giving enjoyment for the wise. The latter do not obstruct realisation.

D.: Are the Self-realised persons reborn? e.g., Vamadeva, Jad a Bharata, etc.

M.: The Realised ones cannot be reborn. Rebirth is due to vasanas which are binding. But they are destroyed in the state of Self-realisation.

D.: Are we to take it that they had gone to the stage of kevala

nirvikalpa but not to sahaja nirvikalpa?

M.: Yes.
D.: If only vasanas for enjoyment do not obstruct the state of realisation and if one can look upon the events of the world without his state of bliss being disturbed, it means that attachment alone is bondage. Am I right?

M.: Yes, quite. Attachment is bondage. Attachment disappears with the elimination of the ego.

D.: Realisation is said to be helped by Guru's Grace.
M.: Guru is none other than the Self.
D.: Krishna had Sandipini for his Guru and so Rama had Vasishta.
M.: Guru is said to be external for the seeker. The in-turn of the mind is brought about by the Guru. Since the seeker is out-ward-bent he is advised to learn from a Guru whom he will in due course find to be the Self.

D.: May I have Guru's Grace?
M.: Grace is always there.

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D.: But I did not feel the same.
M.: Surrender will make one understand the Grace.
D.: I have surrendered heart and soul. I am the best judge of my heart.

Still I do not feel the Grace.

M.: If you had surrendered the questions would not arise.
D.: I have surrendered. Still the questions arise.
M.: Grace is constant. Your judgement is the variable. Where else should the fault lie?

D.: I must be enabled to surrender myself.
M.: Thayumanavar has said: "Glory to Thee for enabling me to discuss so much and follow Thy words so far!"